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View Full Version : 280 Rem vs 7mm Rem Mag


Big Red Trike
12-30-2004, 06:54 PM
:) What about this calibre comparison?

I Have 2 buddies 1 bought it in Ruger Stainless the other a Remington Model 700 SS? They say they are the same ballistically as 7mm Rem Mag......truth or fable....but with less recoil? Lets hear it. I think the 280 is not belted and the 7mm is, right?

Daryl
12-30-2004, 08:00 PM
It's a fallacy.

The .280 is not a 7mm mag, any more than a 7mm rem mag is a 7mm STW.

The .280 Rem shoots a little slower, a little less flat, hits a little less hard, with a little less powder, with a little less recoil than the 7mm Rem Mag. With proper bullet placement, it'll likely kill an animal just as dead, but has a little less room for error on marginal shots. It also has a little less effective range for whatever sized critter you'll be hunting if your into maximizing the distances you shoot.

The .280 Rem is based on the same case as your 30-06, only it's necked down to accept a 7mm. bullet.

The .280 is a fine cartridge for hunting north american big game. The 7mm Rem Mag, IMO, just does the same job a little bit better and with more authority.

Yes, the 7mm Rem Mag is a belted cartridge...based on the .300 Win Mag case if I remember correctly, but I couldn't swear to that.

Just depends on what you want.

Daryl

LLANOJOHN
12-30-2004, 09:23 PM
BRT,

Everything that AZ said is absolutely correct..............but!

To my knowledge the factory ammo of the 280 Remington is not loaded to the same pressure factor that the 7mm Magnum is because there are a few semi-autos that have been chambered for the 280 Remington.

The 7mm Magnum is probably one of the best MAGNUM cartridge designs (who said that??!)!

You won't go wrong by choosing either of the 2 cartridges. My personal choice is still for the .280 Remington............only because I am of Germanic descent and FRUGAL!.:D :D

OK-OK...AZ..................."CHEAP!!"...;) ;)

ol' John...:cool: ..:D

Big Red Trike
12-30-2004, 10:55 PM
AZ & John

If I am hearing you correctly....no real ballistic advantage going from 06 to 280......but ballistic advantage going to 7mm rem mag?

Marlin917VS
12-30-2004, 11:10 PM
Thats what it sounds like to me. If you have the 06 then why not go with something more powerful. Later

LLANOJOHN
12-30-2004, 11:35 PM
C'mon fellers!

Get your load books and ballistic tables out and compare....100 to 300 yards.

Sight in at 200 yards and do the comparisons...........not much is there!

Coupla inches in drop...coupla 100# of energy...Coupla 100 fps maybe.

Do you really think the game hunted can tell the difference at 300 yards..........

Dag-nab-it.........put the right bullet in the right place.......and .........game over!

Accuracy..Accuracy...Accuracy....bullet placement...bullet placement...bullet placement...!!!!!

All else is talk and nonsense...........the KISS principle applies..........Duhhhhh!

My apologies for not being diplomatic about this.......but lets get to basics!!!!

Ol' John.......

drinksgin
12-30-2004, 11:58 PM
Go, John. Go, hit 'em first, then worry about if it was fast enough and big enough!
Don :D

Daryl
12-31-2004, 11:58 AM
Now, now, boys...let's play nice! :)

BRT,

Now I really never compared the 30-06 to the .280 Rem.

Basically, with the 30-06 you have a larger diameter bullet, and therefore you can use heavier bullets that hit harder. The downside to that is that they also drop faster. If you decide to use light for caliber bullets in it, the BC then drops and the velocity that you gained by going to a lighter bullet will be lost because of wind drag on the bullet. When you loose the velocity, you also loose your flat trajectory.

When you neck the case down to 7mm, you can then use a smaller diameter bullet in the same lighter weights and you'll retain more velocity down range. So in actuality, the ONLY thing that you gain by going to the .280 from the '06 is a ballistic advantage and the ability to use even lighter bullets if you so choose.

My thoughts and experiences are that the 7mm Rem Mag hits nearly identically to the '06 (ok, slightly harder at hunting ranges, but the difference is slight), but uses a smaller diameter bullet pushed faster than the '06 is capable of. The main difference is that you get a flatter trajectory and better retained velocity at longer ranges.

The main disadvantages that I see with the 7mm Rem Mag are that it uses more powder to do what it does, and cases don't last as long as with non-belted cartridges (I usually get 4-5 loadings per case).

It just depends on what your wants and needs are. I like the 7mm mag, and have been hunting with one since 1986. Because I'm familiar with it, I know what to expect of it, and I know what it's limitations are. Mine is a Browning A-Bolt with a matte finish and a black synthetic stock. It's ugly as sin, has been carried countless miles on foot, on horseback, on a quad, and in my truck. When it booms in the field, something generally hit's the ground a split second later. It's NEVER failed to do what I ask of it, and that's all I can expect, no?

If any particular shooter becomes intimately familiar with ANY of the above cartridges, it should do anything for him that the other two will and maybe more. If you know your rifles capabilities, know it's limitations, and keep them in mind before and while pulling the trigger, you'll be deadly with that rifle. No two ways about it!

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Daryl

Big Red Trike
12-31-2004, 05:24 PM
Your all correct and right on target......proper bullet, proper placement, kill it and grill it....now my longest shots have been leica lasered at 300 yds.....would like to stretch distance (maybe less hold over, more down range energy, etc)....practice, practice and yes more practice.........want magnum to do this with....and get another gun for the arsenal at the same time......in your opinions is a 7mm more versatile than 300 win mag than a 06 than a 280 rem(7mm Express). Scrap the 280 very similar to the 06. When I go to do this it will be with a mag or 06?

Yes ol john is correct and seemed to get fired up there but he is bang on I have never had a deer say "holey did that bullet get here fast" or "were you ever far away".....they all (well mostly) die the same.

Prettyness aside, my 06 is a cooey (essentially Model 70 Winchester), top load, my grandpa won it in a poker game in 1965 in Ft. Quappelle Sask. as payment for debt. It is scoped with a Bushnell Banner 3x9x40 (<$100) and Millet swivel rings as the bore is not true to the gun......spent less on scope more on rings.....shoots phenominal groups and this year slayed mule deer does (4) and a Whitey Buck. recovering 2 of the 5 bullets that killed the deer.....bullets were 180 gr Hornady Interbonds both recovered bullets retained 178.4 grains and 177.3 grains....to me that is amazing...immaterial weight loss.......now they just need to make them in lighter bullets and for more calibers.........

Big Red Trike
01-31-2005, 05:48 PM
......I just ordered a RUGER LEFT HAND STAINLESS LAMINATE 7MM REM MAG. I pick it up on Friday. I am scoping with a Bushnell 3200 3x9x40. Thanks for the assistance.

Reason for this gun: I am not a Savage fan, Remington only makes Ultra Mags for lefties.....can't afford a Browning.

Reason for calibre: recoil (like a 06 at max load with 200 gr bullet), long range capabilities......if need to I can buy ammo in any small town gas station in the country lol.

ANy info on the gun and calibre would be appreciated.

BRT

Kanibal
01-31-2005, 06:57 PM
I just read an article about bullet efficiency in a shooting magazine and what it discussed was the bullet lethality per grain of powder of numerous popular cartridges. The article also stated that the most efficient magnum cartridge is the 7mm Remington Magnum, so good choice on your new 7mm Ruger. What I found interesting is that the most powder efficient cartridge is the 35 Whelen and that the top ten most efficient rounds are also some of today's least popular. There are just too many power hungry people out there today who have to shoot the fastest and biggest guns possible. Proven by all of the super ultra magnums coming out every year in today's market. For example the 300 Rem Ultra Mag is a normal 30 caliber bullet with a case that closely resembles a 404 Jefferys (a popular African Big Game round). Its funny that a lot of people feel the need to have such powerful guns in order to kill animals that grandpa used to kill with a 30-30 or 22LR. As said in above articles as long as you can get a bullet in the right spot then why worry how fast it got there or how hard it hit as long as you get a clean kill.
-Richard

45-70 Rifleman
01-31-2005, 11:59 PM
I have to agree with HondoJohn. Any difference is almost entirely academic. The only advantage I see in a 7mm Mag over a .280 is that you gain a little range for the job at hand. Shooting a target or deer at 300 yards with the magnum gives you about the same velocity as the identical bullet from the .280 would have at about 200. So you gain 100 yards. If you shoot within a few hundred yards then it really isn't going to benefit you much to have the magnum. If however, you plan to shoot 400, 500 or 600 yards, then the magnum will give you some extra "reach". With a faster time of flight it is exposed to wind drift for a shorter time, will drop less, and will require less lead for a walking target. But you really need to know your stuff when shooting that far.

I have been to Alaska 5 times and spent a lot of time in the wilderness but I never had the oportunity to hunt there. However, on one trip I spent an evening visiting with a very well known big game guide. A buddy I was traveling with was his nephew. The guide explained how he thought the 30-06 was adequate for any game in Alaska, even the bears if you did your part. The 7mm magnum was far from up to the task, though, according to him. I have often wondered how this could be. I still have my doubts about any real differences in abilities. I have heard others say the 30-06 was the minimum for Alaskan bears. I don't know, maybe he just had to draw the line somewhere.

The 7mm Magnum has a reputation for accuracy that the .280 doesn't share. That's just another inigma to me. Maybe target shooters shunned the .280 and it never got a chance to prove itself.

An argument in support of the 7mm Remington Magnum over the .280 would sound a lot like an argument supporting the 30-06 as significantly better than the .308. Hardly worth the effort. The "real world" differences are minimal at best.

So what do I really think about all this? I have three rifles that shoot the 7x64 Brenneke and two that shoot 7x65R. I would toss them into the arena with the .280 and 7mm Rem Mag and say, "show me any real difference".

kombi1976
02-02-2005, 08:06 AM
Here's an debate in the making. If you're going to toss the 7mm Brenneke rounds in why not add the 280 Ackley Improved? I believe it's the best of both worlds by specs. H&R actually makes their 280 Rem with a 26" barrel rather than the 22" barrels most of their other modern cartridges have. I'd love to get a HandiRifle in 280 Rem and have it reamed out to 280 AI. I reckon it'd be an amazing long range outfit. But yeah, the ammo is darned hard to get.

45-70 Rifleman
02-02-2005, 09:38 AM
All so close why bother with an Improved version of any of them? You do have a point about the availability of ammo. The 7mm Rem Mag is more widely available, at least in the USA.

rockinbbar
02-02-2005, 10:03 AM
In my opinion, this is just matter of what a person likes & is comfortable shooting....

The .280 Remington IS nothing more than a 30-06 necked down to 7mm caliber....
Like Az said the 7mm will ballistically outperform the .280 on every level. While the difference is slight, like Hondo mentioned.

What it all boils down to is this: The .280 Rem will do anything that a 7mm Mag will do, albeit at a shorter range. Just as a 30-06 will do anything a 300 Win Mag will do, except at a shorter range.....

Case in point....If you are shooting an elk at 350 yards with the 7mm Mag, the bullet strikes the elk with "X" number of foot pounds of energy.....
To equal the same foot pounds of energy, the .280 will have to be fired at a closer range.

It is absolutely correct to assume that the BEST method of killing an animal is to put the bullet in the right spot....period. THAT boils down to how well you can shoot your rifle, & how good you are at actually HUNTING the animal.

I hear all the time that the .308 I use for hunting elk is "Just too light"...HORSEFEATHERS!!
If I shoot an elk at 150 yards with my .308, I doubt seriously the elk will know the difference.....Would I take that 450 yard shot with a .308? NO,....I'll get closer, or wait for a better day....

One thing that has not been mentioned is the "flinch factor" of the magnum calibers..
In my opinion, there are very many hunters out there that would be vastly better off shooting a standard caliber while hunting rather than a magnum because quite frankly they can't shoot the magnum to it's best advantage due to the fact they are afraid of the recoil & will not place the bullet in the best possible spot on the animal...If they shot a standard caliber & shot it better than the magmun, then they will place the shot better in the field & on the animal...where it really counts!;)

Rockinbbar

sakorick
02-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Yes, the 7mm Rem Mag is a belted cartridge...based on the .300 Win Mag case if I remember correctly, but I couldn't swear to that.

I think it was based on the 338 necked down or the 264 necked up???? enough of this nonsense....they are all great deer rifles
7x57
7mmWSM
7MM REM SAUM
7MM-08
7x64
284 WIN
280 REM
7MM REM MAG
7MM WBY MAG
275 H H
7MM DAK
7MM STW
7MM ULTRA.....did I miss one??? Take your pick men....all great deer rifles...buy one shoot it...enjoy