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LLANOJOHN
10-21-2004, 05:47 PM
Friend & Neighbors,

Here is a pic of the new C Daly Mini-Mauser action with the .473 bolt-face. The cartridge is the 6.5 Remington BR (wildcat cartridge).

LLANOJOHN
10-21-2004, 06:17 PM
Friends & Neighbors,

Here is a pic comparing the Mini-Mauser action with a Remington 721 Barrel action.
The cartridges shown are:
Left to Right........6.5 Rem BR........6.5x06 AI........6.5x06.......338x57 MAI.........

English
10-21-2004, 10:01 PM
Hondo, that is very intriguing. While I'll probably never have the money to build a rifle like that I sure like the concept! What are you getting/expecting by way of ballistics for that round?

Mike

LLANOJOHN
12-18-2004, 11:52 AM
UPDATE--

Just received an -e- from E R Shaw barrels...it has been shipped! Received the stock from Richards Microfit.......#102 Old Classic w/shadow line cheekpiece, California Claro A-Fancy with good color and a fair amount of 'fiddle-back' ! Will post some pics after the barrel arrives. Everything is coming together nicely with only the reamer to order after the 1st of the year!

Ol' John

Mark R
12-18-2004, 06:20 PM
Hondo, what exactly is 6.5 Rem BR. Is it it similar to 6mm PPC only in 6.5. I'm alittle bit curious about it and its history.

Thanks

Mark

LLANOJOHN
12-18-2004, 09:15 PM
Hondo, what exactly is 6.5 Rem BR. Is it it similar to 6mm PPC only in 6.5. I'm alittle bit curious about it and its history.

Thanks

MarkMark,

I don't have a lot of history on this cartridge. I have read about it occasionally and believe it was originally designed for competition in LR Silhouette but I could be wrong. It is one of about 8 or so wildcats based off the .308 x 1.5". Remington came out commercially with the .22 BR, 6mm Rem BR. The BR stands for BenchRest but I am sure you already knew that. It has the standard .473 case head like the .308 but it uses a Small Rifle Primer. The 6mm PPC uses a case head of .445 diameter so its a little smaller in diameter and doesn't have the powder capacity.

I will be using 6MM Rem BR brass necked up to 6.5. Heaviest weight bullet will be 100gr probably the Sierra HP. As most everyone knows I am a big fan of the 6.5 bore and thats why I chose this particular wildcat. With the 22" barrel velocities should be in the 2800 to 2900 fps range so its not going to be a speed demon. Based on 40 years of experience with the Sierra 100gr HP, it will be more than adequate for Texas hill country whitetails up to 200 yards +/-. Its to be used by my kinfolks youngsters as their first exposure to deer hunting.

Just something out of the ordinary but when I have the rifle finally completed it should make a good first gun for the kiddos and a show piece for me.

Ol' John

LLANOJOHN
12-20-2004, 04:40 PM
Friends & neighbors,

Thought I would pass on to y'all how I came to the select the 6.5 BR as the cartridge of choice for this particular endeavor.....It was NOT my first choice. When I first learned of the availability of the Mini-Mauser actions they indicated availability in 3 bolt faces--.222 or .223, 7.62x39 and 22-250....WOW! Mini-Mauser available in the .473 bolt-face(22-250)! OK, didn't want another 22 caliber and wasn't interested in 7.62x39....but a 22-250 case necked up to 6.5 sounded like a good idea to me.........WRONG!!!! Much to my surprise after ordering the action the 6.5x250 which was the first choice, the overall length with the desired bullet(100gr Sierra HP seated to the neck/shoulder junction) was TOO LONG for the magazine. So that brought to a halt Plan A.

Plan B.......Need to find a cartridge with a .473 diameter that was a bit shorter than the desired 22-250 that would still be within the perameters of exterior ballistics that I desired. Thumbing thru the "Cartridges of the World" (hereafter designated COTW) I came across the listing for the 6MM Remington BR...........Hmmmmm! Easy neck-up to 6.5, good availability of brass at a reasonable cost....So far--so good!....Went to the "Load From A Disc" program and did the necessary changes from 6MM to 6.5MM in the "Cartridge Designer" portion of the program and the results were within the velocities that would work with the bullets from 85grains to 100grains and the OAL with these bullets would work with the magazine limitations (2.37")......With this info....PLAN B became first and final option.

As most of you know I am always a believer in the KISS principle and fitting the action to the cartridge and not the other way around. This was my thought process -- hope you found it interesting and hopefully informative.

Best regards,

Ol' John..:D

drinksgin
12-20-2004, 05:22 PM
John;
That sounds like making apple sauce after a truck load of apples turns over, we do the best we can with what we get, and still get some thing good. ;D
How is your rebore project doing?
Don

LLANOJOHN
12-20-2004, 08:08 PM
John;
That sounds like making apple sauce after a truck load of apples turns over, we do the best we can with what we get, and still get some thing good. ;D
How is your rebore project doing?
DonDon,

Apples to make applesauce..................EXACTLY!!

Some days you are ahead of the curve, most days you are behind the curve and on 1 or 2 days ............. YOU ARE THE CURVE!!! Now as which is the best to be is still under investigation.........After 62 years..still no definite answer!

How is your rebore project doing? The last I heard it was in the vise to remove the action.........Probably will get it back after the 1st of the year or there-a-bouts...kinda maybe...hope so...Won't know til it gets here!

Ol' John

LLANOJOHN
12-25-2004, 07:47 AM
UPDATE-!

The barrel from ER Shaw & the stock from Richards Microfit have arrived!!!!!
As soon as it warms up and better weather, I will post pics!

Ol' John...:D

drinksgin
12-25-2004, 11:04 AM
John;
Get any of that funny looking fluffy rain last night?
TV said Tilden and Victoria got 11-12".
Don

Mark R
12-25-2004, 11:17 AM
We got 4" here in Galveston . I'm pretty sure a White Christmas here is quite a rarity.

Mark

LLANOJOHN
12-25-2004, 11:20 AM
Don,
Yeah, I heard that they were getting that fluffy stuff.........can you believe that south country getting snow...????.......Hope they survive as I am sure some of those folks have only seen snow in pictures and on the TV!

Ol' John

drinksgin
12-25-2004, 12:11 PM
Mark;
About as common as finding an honest politician!
John;
It looks as though you and I missed all the excitement, which suits me just fine, I spent about 3 months in Wyoming, that was enough for the rest of my life.
Don :D

LLANOJOHN
12-25-2004, 12:55 PM
Don,

The winter of 84-85 - can't remember the exact date I was the recipient of 17" of snow here at the ol' homestead........couldn't get off the place for 4 days! Thats enough snow for my life-time, thank you very much.

Ol' John

LLANOJOHN
12-27-2004, 02:42 PM
OK-----------AS PROMISED------WX BEAUTIFUL TODAY--SUNSHINE--59*

Here are some pics of the barrel-it needs to be contoured so I placed a military contour barrel above it to show approximately what it will look like when completed. The contour in the middle will be placed on a milling machine to cut the octagon flats. Now I get to spend more money.........need to order the reamer. The final lenght of the barrel will be 21 3/4". As usual and as always your comments are solicited. ......Ol' John

PS-The stock is from Richards Microfit, California Claro Walnut, Grade A Fancy. in their No 102 Old Classic style, the shadow line cheekpiece doesn't show up very well but best I could do...........I applied water to the stock to hopefully show what it will look like when finished and to enhance the "fiddle-back" in the butt......Brother Jay..what say you about that lovely piece of walnut? I would personally place it one grade higher than A-Fancy!

drinksgin
12-27-2004, 03:48 PM
John;
I don't know what finish you prefer, but I would do at least 15 coats of Tung oil on that, it deserves some personal attention.
Don

LLANOJOHN
12-28-2004, 10:08 AM
John;
I don't know what finish you prefer, but I would do at least 15 coats of Tung oil on that, it deserves some personal attention.
DonDon,

I couldn't agree more about the Tung oil! However, I am doing a bit of research on gunstock preparation and finishes. This is a really nice piece of walnut, the pics just don't do it justice.
One of the problems I have encountered is not being able to highlight the contrasts to really bring out the 'fiddleback' or 'tiger-striping' as some folks call it. I believe the Tung oil finish is what I will eventually use but it doesn't hurt to "touch" all bases or possibilities. Just have to wait and see. This is going to be a continuing thread but you knew that already!

Thanks for your continuing interest.

Ol' John..:cool:

Jay Edward
12-28-2004, 01:40 PM
Beautiful John, and I can already see the blisters on your hand. Getting that 3D look will be time consuming. I reckon you'll 'raise the hair', fill the pores and start with your favorite finish. I imagine you won't be using pure Tung since it takes so long to dry. Which particular brand do you intend to try?

Have you tried the Permalyn by Laurel Mountain Forge? Track carries it and I think Brownells may also. I've had pretty good success with it and it might just fit your bill. With the grade of wood you've got there it might pay to experiment a little.

When the barrel is profiled octagon, are you going to have it milled (or shaped) in such a way that the chamber portion is left round?

drinksgin
12-28-2004, 04:57 PM
John;
You could, of course, ask Remington what plastic they use.
Diving for cover with tongue in cheek!:O
ANON.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear ANON!

HO! HO! HO!

Tung oil is at the top of the list right now but I am doing some research on other finishes and techniques to achieve what I want with this very nice piece of wood!

Ol' John...:D

LLANOJOHN
12-29-2004, 12:08 PM
Beautiful John, and I can already see the blisters on your hand. Getting that 3D look will be time consuming. I reckon you'll 'raise the hair', fill the pores and start with your favorite finish. I imagine you won't be using pure Tung since it takes so long to dry. Which particular brand do you intend to try?
Definite yes on the "raise the hair" or "whiskering" as that is mandatory for a good clean and smooth to the touch finish. Moser 100% Pure Tung Oil is what I have on hand and if I use it will probably cut it to 50% for faster drying. May end up having to build a "hot dry" box!

Have you tried the Permalyn by Laurel Mountain Forge? Track carries it and I think Brownells may also. I've had pretty good success with it and it might just fit your bill. With the grade of wood you've got there it might pay to experiment a little.
"
Brownells does carry the Permalyn and I have not used it in the past so this may very well be an option. Thanks for the "heads-up" on this product. With your endorsement it is now "tied" for the #1 choice.

When the barrel is profiled octagon, are you going to have it milled (or shaped) in such a way that the chamber portion is left round?Yes! The military contoured barrel in the picture is a Swede Model 38 barrel and I will take measurements at various points on the barrel and use those figures as a guide. Most military barrels that I have measured are about .610 at muzzle. The barrel for the Mini-Mauser will be about .550 at muzzle and 21.75" in length. These are first thoughts on the matter and subject to change!

Ol' John..;) :D

oldelkhunter
01-03-2005, 10:16 PM
John,


Want to thank you for passing along all the information on your mini-mauser project.
Without your information I would not have known that CD was actually making a .473
bolt face available in the mini action. Their web page inaccuractly shows a bolt face
of .453 for the mini suited for the .22-250. You have to dig further to find the info
for that action and it correctly lists the bolt face as .473. Now I will order one and
build a 6.5 BR, 7mm Br, and a 6mm Br. I have a Rem 788 in 6mm Br and really like it
for varmints. It works well enough that I am selling my .243 Win.

Are you chosing a military step contour because it is easy cut on a lathe?

Rich

LLANOJOHN
01-03-2005, 11:07 PM
oldelkhunter,

Welcome neighbor! Glad my posts were of help as that is what THE HUNTER'S LIFE FORUM is all about.....sharing experience, knowledge, good times/bad times and, of course, tall tales and sometimes they are truthfull.

Are you choosing a military step contour because it is easy to cut on a lathe? I have always had a particular affection for half round/half octagon barrels as a very distinctive custom feature. They are realively simple to do. There is only one barrel manufacturer, to my knowledge, that makes military contour barrels. They had their hands full with special projects so I ordered a threaded barrel blank from E R Shaw barrels. Not the twist that I would like ( 1 in 9") but based on past experience it should do what I want done accuracy wise. As this particular rifle with its short magazine, max weight bullets will be 100grain. We will see if my judgement and ideas are valid. I will be ordering the reamer sometime this week if all goes well.

Glad I could be of help.

Ol' John..:D

oldelkhunter
01-23-2005, 12:10 AM
Would you do me a favor and actually measure the diameter of the
bolt body on your mini-mauser at the head end, and the actual width of the
bolt face. I am just curious how they got a .473 bolt face on that small bolt. I have
three of these mini-mausers and the bolts look awfully small.

Thanks,


Old Elk Hunter

LLANOJOHN
01-23-2005, 01:45 PM
oldelkhunter,

Bolt body measures 0.540........bolt face measures 0.473 (WOW!) actually measures right on!

Ol' John

oldelkhunter
01-23-2005, 06:20 PM
That doesn't leave much to spare. I checked on their European web site

and they sell these rifles in 22-250. They just call it an M85 instead of a mini-mauser.

Well, I guess its time for me to order three actions. When I get done with my

project I'll post a write up and photos also. I think more people would enjoy these

rifles if they were more aware of them. My first one will be in 6mmBR, then 7mmBr,

and finally a 6.5mmBR like yours. I'm also going to use Richard's Microfit stocks.

I will also be converting one of my 7.62x39 mini-mausers to 357 Remington Maximum.

Again, thanks for the information.

Old Elk Hunter

LLANOJOHN
01-23-2005, 07:30 PM
oldelkhunter,

That is a very adventureous project you have set out for yourself...good cartridges all.

A question for you......have you located any brass with the 6.5 headstamp? The only brass I have been able to locate is 6mm.

Whose barrels will you be using?

Look forward to seeing the results......Please post pics as you go thru the various processes.

Ol' John:D :D :D

oldelkhunter
01-23-2005, 08:58 PM
Ol'John,

I do not know of anyone who makes 6.5 BR brass. In the past I have seen people have brass
made with the correct headstamp for other calibers and they had to order at least 100,000 pieces.
If I was 21 I might consider it.

For barrels, at the moment I intend to use Lilja. This decision was made after
reading a lot of articles and posts by Dan Lilja. I know that Krieger and Hart are also high class
barrels and I may consider them. If I get cheap, I will use Shilen and will buy from the Barrelman
who has the best Shilen prices. I have several PacNor barrels and they work well for my varmint
hunting. I've gotten to a point in life that I don't have time for disappointments and shooting is one
of the few things that I still enjoy. For these fun guns I will buy good barrels.

I read all the postings I can find on benchrest and long range shooting to find out what works.
I don't do all the benchrest type steps, but I use a lot of their techniques to ensure my ammo and
rifles are accurate enough for me. One thing I will not do is turn necks. I prefer to instead buy
Lapua brass which is so good that I do not need to do anything to it before loading. I have my
chamber reamers sized to match the Lapua brass with .002 inch neck clearance. I headspace my
barrels to have essentially zero headspace with maybe a slight crush fit.

I don't load for max velocity or pressure. I pick the powder and load that will give me the needed
velocity and lowest pressure with the highest load density. I generally use ball or sperical powder
and the short cut versions of stick powder. I use progressive presses with manual indexing except
on my Dillon 650. For elk hunting ammo I use a single stage RCBS Rockchucker and a process I have developed to do quality and safety checks to ensure dependable hunting ammo. I won't cry
if I miss a shot at a ground squirrel, but I won't tolerate an error while elk hunting. I usually don't
shoot factory ammo, especially Remington. I avoid Federal ammo but like their brass. I don't know
why, but Federal ammo consistently has a point of impact about 4 inches away from the typical
Remington/Winchester ammo.

I like to SHOOT varmints, but I HUNT deer/elk/antelope. I did bow hunting for several years and
I learned how to hunt again. I won't take a 400 yard shot at an elk. I turn into a predator when
I hunt big game and will run, crawl, sneak, or anything else to get close enough to put a well aimed
shot into the heart or head. One hunter almost shot me because at first he thought I was a cougar
getting into an attack positon on the elk he was also watching. He needed his glasses checked, I've
never seen a 275 pound cougar. I don't wear hunter orange because I don't like other hunters
checking me out through their scopes. If I want to be seen I will put on an orange hat and make
a lot of noise.

My hunting rifles get abused and used but are well cared for. My crawling rifle is a good Mauser 98
chambered for 30-06 AI with a peep sight. I've dragged it through all kinds of stuff. I quietly
view shiny pretty rifles in some nimrods hands with contempt. I have to supress the urge to spray
paint the glossy thing with dull camo paint. I use stainless steel but I have it bead blasted until it
is dull. I won't hesitate to paint or cover a hunting rifle. I like nice wood and high polished steel
only on shotguns for the trap/skeet range. My field Beretta is all dull blue with a dull finish on the
stock.

Enough of my rambling. I guess this lets you know I like guns made for a specific function.

Old Elk Hunter

warnerj
01-27-2005, 12:47 PM
HondoJohn,
Thanks for the photos and info. As someone pointed out earlier the diminsions on the CD website are wrong. I called them about it but they couldn't give me any info on the size, said that it wasn't available?!? If you will, could you tell me what the Max OAL of cartridge that action will accomodate? I have plans to shorten a .284 Win to 1.6 Inches, blow out the shoulder to .490-.495 with a shoulder angle of 40 degrees and keep it at 7mm for a nice lightweight knock about rifle. (plan to limit bullet weight to max 140-145 gr.)

Thanks again,
Jeff

LLANOJOHN
01-27-2005, 02:57 PM
HondoJohn,
Thanks for the photos and info. As someone pointed out earlier the diminsions on the CD website are wrong. I called them about it but they couldn't give me any info on the size, said that it wasn't available?!? If you will, could you tell me what the Max OAL of cartridge that action will accomodate? I have plans to shorten a .284 Win to 1.6 Inches, blow out the shoulder to .490-.495 with a shoulder angle of 40 degrees and keep it at 7mm for a nice lightweight knock about rifle. (plan to limit bullet weight to max 140-145 gr.)

Thanks again,
Jeff
Jeff,
Glad you found it interesting! The magazine length is 2.37". By using the .284 case you will probably have to open the rails to get it to feed correctly and you will lose magazine capacity by one cartridge. You didn't ask my opinion but I will give it any way. You might consider the 7mm BR cartridge rather than the wildcatted .284 case. Investigate both and if you have one of the load programs like the "Load from A Disc" you can get a good idea if its worth all the hassle to get those few extra FPS's. Just a thought!

Ol' John:D

PS. The reamer has been ordered.......294 neck, .030 freebore and a 1o30' throat. per the recommendation of Dave Kiff @ PTG Reamers. The races will begin soon, weather permitting!

oldelkhunter
03-05-2005, 02:51 AM
I was just wondering if you had gotten any further on your 6.5 Br project.

I am very interested in the final results.

LLANOJOHN
03-05-2005, 07:45 AM
oldelkhunter,

Received the reamer a week or so ago. I have two other projects to finish up and then will start with the Mini-Mauser project. Have a little more research to do as far as barrel design is concerned. How about you? Please feel free to post pics or whatever on your projects. Any input is always appreciated.

Ol' John

usajohnmartin
03-05-2005, 11:35 PM
Hondo John,
I like the choice of 6.5 BR for your own good reasons ! I like the 7.62x39 and 7x57 Mauser for my own good reasons.... Cheap and readily available Surplus or factory ammo and easily reloadable if I get the notion, acceptable accuracy with abvailable ammo and plenty effective for the intended purpose.

But who makes these in a production field or hunting grade Left-handed action repeater ?

oldelkhunter
05-10-2005, 01:49 AM
I have been searching for a jobber that actually has a mini-mauser action in inventory with a .473 bolt face. Does anyone know where I can get one?

LLANOJOHN
05-10-2005, 08:56 AM
I have been searching for a jobber that actually has a mini-mauser action in inventory with a .473 bolt face. Does anyone know where I can get one?
PM coming your way with info!

Ol' John..:D