Quote from: gitano;153094Or 20 minutes in a pressure cooker.

I like to pressure cook most game, big or small. ALL bear meat gets pressure-cooked. You can pressure-cook a bear roast and then put it in the broiler on on the grill, and 1) everything is "dead", and 2) it tastes just like it was broiled or grilled. AND it's tender!

A new-to-me recipe/process that I kind of discovered recently was a major revelation for me. I have always wrestled with the waste associated with the tendons of big game's lower legs.  I tried "grinding it up" with the meat, and I can assure you, THAT does NOT work. Anyway, I was pressure cooking a hide-quarter roast - the "heart" roast that has a large piece of fascia through the middle. The fascia "went away" in the pressure cooker. Hmm... I took some pretty serious "tendonized" meat and pressure cooked it. Not only did teh tendons "go away, the resulting broth was EXCELENT. Now, take this for what it's worth, but I'm telling you the truth, I've done it now at least 10 times with the same result. I take ALL of the lower leg meat INCLUDING THE TENDONS and cut it into about 2" cubes. Whatever portion you want gets added to whatever you would make "stew" with: carrots, onions, cabbage, potatoes, etc. It all goes in the pressure cooker for 25 minutes at 15 PSI. The pressure is allowed to reduce 'naturally' as the cooker cools. That takes another 20 minutes or so. When you open the pot, there is NO tendon, a MARVELOUS broth, and lots of TENDER chunks of meat in your stew. Honest to goodness, this is the most game-meat-saving process I have learned in 30 years. I now have NO waste - ZERO - associated with the meat AND TENDONS of the lower legs. The same goes for the tendons elsewhere on the critter - like those on the shoulder and neck. AND, what those tendons and fascia add to the flavor of the broth is difficult to exaggerate.

 Paul

Without a pressure cooker, that's known as "slow cooking to liquefy the collagen protein."   The problem is, trying to do it in an oven takes longer and requires moisture.  Ala the pot roast, pork shoulder etc, otherwise it gets dried out excessively, or you have to use a fatty cut of meat.  Most game cuts are NOT fatty.

But this is the science behind a slow cooked/smoked Brisket or Pork Shoulder for pulled pork, ala Texas BBQ.  In the BBQ, a "Mop" is used to maintain the moisture and often forms a glaze if it's formulated to do so.

The time required also helps infuse the Meat with any seasonings you like (from the "rub"), or in the case of the BBQer, smoke flavor.

https://www.scienceofcooking.com/meat/slow_cooking1.htm

I'm not saying pressure cooking is bad, it's not.  But the science behind breaking down the connective tissue is the same.

You can cook a pastrami in a pressure cooker too, and it will be just as tender, but it won't taste the same.

Quote from: jamie.270You can cook a pastrami in a pressure cooker too, and it will be just as tender, but it won't taste the same.

True!

I don't pressure cook for 'taste' though. MOSTLY I pressure cook to kill 'bugs'. NOTHING biological survives pressure cooking. (It doesn't eliminate TOXINS, but it DOES kill 'bugs'.) Also, I pressure cook to 'tenderize'. It's a rare piece of meat that isn't tenderized by pressure cooking. Finally, and new to me, is breaking down collagen. Yippeee! "Taste" is just 'gravy'.

Paul

Love the puns!!


 See, I make a point of eating "recreationally" as often as possible.
It's gotta be tasty or it's just one more case of working for my existence.
There's enough of that in other aspects of my life.  LOL

Don't get me wrong, I like tender too, but it all starts with taste.  For me tender is the bonus.

To wit:  While the weather was cold back in January I made some homemade bacon.
 Real bacon.  Salt, sugar, Prague powder #2 and 8lbs of pork belly.  Rub it, bag it, into the fridge.
Turn it twice a day, massage it, turn it, back in the fridge. For 4 days.  The family thought I was nutz.
 
 On the 5th day, into the smoker with smouldering hickory and oak chunks for 4 hours at 120*.
Cool for 30 minutes, wrap and into the fridge to rest for 2 days.  Do not eat when fresh!



 Slice and into a cast iron skillet.

 

!!OMG!!  

it was like I was 10 years old again!!  I forgot bacon was supposed to TASTE like that!
I forgot you could cook bacon without it spitting and popping every 10 seconds.
I forgot you could make bacon with crispy fat and chewy meat.
And that honest-to-God smokey smell while it was cooking was Gaahhhhhhh!  Heavenly!

I did however, make one near-fatal mistake.




 I gave some to each of my 3 neighbors to try.


A warning,...

 Should you attempt making your own bacon, do NOT give any to anyone close enough to visit you regularly.  Trust me- 'Nuff said.  (Unless you REALLY like them)
 And make sure the lock on your garage freezer works.
 LOL


It's all about the taste.

I'm going to purchase a pressure cooker! What size should I buy? 6 qt, 8 qt 16 qt....they make so many models it's confusing. I need one that you turn on program and forget it!

Rick, I use an 8 quar pressure cooker for cooking. There's only Muffin & I here to eat. Even with company the 8 quart size is plenty big enough. You can only fill a pressure cooker about 2/3 rds full. For larger pressure  cooking I can always use one of the canning pressure canners for larger meals. .......Paul H

I use a large canner like this http://www.allamericancanner.com/All-American-Pressure-Canners.htm, and a small, fixed-pressure, "stove-top" like this one https://www.amazon.com/Presto-6-Quart-Aluminum-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B00006ISG3 The "stove-top" pressure cooker gets used more than the canning one. Pressure cooking is seeing something of a resurgence in recent years and manufacturers are making new ones that are 'programmable' and 'foolproof'. At least according to the manufacturers. Here are some: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-electric-pressure-cooker/ I'm thinking about getting one of the new programmable ones, but the ones I have do the job so I can't really justify another 'gadget'.

Paul

I've been threatening to make some "pastrami", but haven't gotten 'a round tuit' yet. I need several round tuits.

Paul

Over on the Reloading site, (http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153909#post153909) I promised to relate "the rest of the story" about the recon to Delta I did. Here's that information:

I left my house in Wasilla at 8am, and arrived in Delta Junction, (305 miles later), at 1:45pm. When I first arrived in Delta I stopped in the Alaska Deptartment of Fish and Game (ADF&G) office to speak  with the local bison biologist. He was very helpful in that he knew who  among the landowners was anti hunting and who was pro hunting, and he  wrote the people's names on the map provided that were willing to let people hunt  on their property. He also explained about the "Bison Range", how it  was built, how it was used by the bison AND the bison hunters. He also  provided info about the nature of, and timing of, the herd's annual  movements. When asked where the majority of the herd was now, he pointed  to private land.

I left the ADF&G office and headed to the  bison range - sort of. The "bison range" is actually two large fields in  which the Department has cleared SOME land of trees, and essentially  made "barley" fields. Except this year they also planted turnips, which,  the bison biologist said they 'love'. Each field is about two miles  long and a mile wide. They are separated by about 5 miles. Right now,  and until the beginning of the bison hunts on Oct. 1, the fields are  closed to motorized vehicles. It's moose season, and there were plenty  of moose hunters in the area between the fields, which is where I headed  just to get familiar with how to get there, and what I would be looking  at for "roads". The trails within the general area were sufficient for a  2003 Honda Accord to navigate with minimal scraping of the  undercarriage. (Scratching the sides trying to stay out of ruts wasn't  'minimal'.) I saw one set of fresh - anywhere from hours to days old -  bison tracks. And as I said, plenty of moose hunters.

Next, I  went to the most distant-from-Delta of the landowners that the bison  biologist had said would allow bison hunters on their property. The area  as a whole is MUCH larger than I realized. In the grand scheme of  "areas to hunt" in Alaska, it isn't so large, but for some reason, I had  envisioned it smaller that it is. The first road I went out was 15  miles long, (with emphasis on 'long' due to it's condition), and the  first owner I saw (Jim Black) was at the absolute end of the road. It  was just over 1000 acres in size. Jim is 80 years old, been in AK for  about 20 years. Has quite a shock of white hair and a greater amount of  white beard. He said his wife managed the "buffalo stuff", and she was  'out' at the moment, but he would 'do his best' to give me the gist of  things. The "gist" was $500 up front: Purely an access fee, paid up  front and no guarantee of success. I got the impression that Jim was a  bit starved for male conversation, as I had a difficult time extracting  myself from his place. A nice guy, and lots of interesting anecdotal  information. Also gave me the names of others willing to let people hunt  bison on their property.

The next place was "Wild Rose Ranch",  mentioned in the thread on the bison hunt in general. They didn't want  any money up front (other than cabin rentals, etc.) but wanted $2000 if  you were successful. I drove down the road to their "ranch", but didn't  talk to anyone.

The next place was the "Steele" place. His wife  also managed the "buffalo stuff" and also wasn't home. I was told to  call back today or tomorrow.

The next place was the Sorensens. As  I drove up to this place, I finally saw a place that actually looked  like a real grain farm. VERY nice-looking place. I also saw something  I've never seen in Alaska, a moose HANGING from a farm machine.  In this case, it was a large fork-lift. Freshly killed, skinned, and  split right down the spine like you would see done with a steer. (Reminded me of all the pictures you see of Scandanavian moose hung from front-loaders.) Steve  Sorensen and his wife were preparing to lay it on a "big blue tarp" (a  phrase that has special meaning in Alaska), to cut it up. Steve and his  wife were very nice people. He pointed out to me that he had told  F&G that he didn't have any property available for hunting because he had fenced it, but they  had "ignored him". He also explained "not available for hunting", AKA  "No Hunting". It was NOT that the farmers didn't want bison hunters on  their land, rather, it was (for the most part anyway), that the farmers -  like him - had fenced their land off from the ravages of the bison, and  therefore, there were no bison TO hunt on their land. It was NOT that  they were "anti" bison hunters. For the most part. There were  SOME farmers that didn't want hunting on their land. Steve gave me the  phone numbers (right from his cell phone), of two more land-owners that  allowed hunting AND had bison on their property. I thanked him, and  headed for the one he said of: "You'll get one on Helkin's place."

It  was approaching dusk by the time I got to the Helkin's place. Roger was  out 'in the field' picking up the last of the bales of hay he had baled  that day. His wife informed me that "he takes care of the buffalo  stuff" and that I would have to speak with him. Fortunately, she said he  would be finished soon, and I was welcome to wait for him to return. We  could see him heading in from the distant field. Again, very nice  people. Roger hadn't yet made up his mind on what he was going to  charge: "Somewhere between $350 and $500." But he was adamant that it  was going to be "up front", and an "access fee, not contingent on  success". Apparently, he had been ripped off a couple of times. In the  end, we agreed that I would call him next week when he had made up his  mind on exactly what the fee was going to be. His wife had mentioned  that they had already had one hunter before me, ask for permission. She  didn't say whether he had paid the fee (whatever it was) or not.

The final place was the Speckle's place, and I could find no one home.

While  there were many more people on the list F&G provided of local land  owners, there were none that had parcels "of interest", so I headed back  to Delta. (I had Spreckle's phone number, and will call him today.)  Spreckles land is adjacent to Helkins.

ADF&G told me that the  bison were always "up by the river" (Jim Black's area), at this time of  year. Jim Black told me "they're all down on the bison range this  early". Hmm... I got the impression that both of them believed what they  were telling me. I hope to get one of my friends to do some aerial  recon the week before the hunt. IF I can get that arranged, MAYBE I can  tell where the herd is in general, and make a decision on whom to pay  how much.

I had a steak dinner in Delta and even though I had  planned to spend the night in Delta, I didn't see doing anything else the  next day, so I decided to head back to Wasilla. (I had to keep reminding  myself where in the world I was so I wouldn't be complaining about  having to chase the "medium rare" steak around my plate because the cow  wasn't dead yet.) It was already 9pm, and the trip back to Wasilla would  be 6 hours (305 miles to my doorstep), but I still thought I'd get a  head start on it. If I got tired, I just pull over and sleep in the car.  It was 150 miles to Glennallen, and I got nearly half way there before I  started feeling sleepy. I kinda wanted to make Glennallen before  stopping simply because it was a 'better' place to sleep beside the  road. Especially In the dark, the first half of the road is 'exciting'  enough to keep you awake, but the second half is pretty boring. I  struggled to stay awake, but I made it to Glennallen at midnight, pulled  out the sleeping bag and got about 4 hours of sleep. I got back on the  road, another 3 hours and 150 miles, at 0500, and was home at 0800. I  started writing this about noon after I woke up again, and had some  breakfast.

I asked the F&G biologist what the CPUE was for  bison on this hunt, and got a very vague answer. Which means "I don't  know", and/or: "We haven't calculated that information." When I pressed a  little, he hemmed and hawed and said "About 10 days on average". I'm  almost certain that's a WAG based on data from other hunts. (CPUE is  "Catch Per Unit Effort". This is a standard piece of information  collected and calculated for all fisheries. In sportfishing, it's how  many units of time does it take to catch a fish or a limit of fish. For  example, in the Kenai, the average CPUE for a king salmon is 50 hours of  fishing for non-guided fishermen, and about 8h for guided. In  commercial fisheries, the calcs are more complicated but the result is  essentially the same: How many hours/minutes of net soak-time does it  take to catch one fish.) Most specific game hunts, especially one as  regulated and controlled as this bison hunt, are analyzed 'to death'. I  would be shocked to find out that no one has calculated the average  number of days spent per successful hunter in this hunt. I'm going to have to 'call around', and get copies of the "Annual Report" that is required to be written by the biologist responsible for the hunt.

So  that's it for the pre-season recon for this hunt. To tell you the  truth, I'm not sure yet what 'the plan' will be. The "Bison Range" is  free, but EVERYONE says it's "combat hunting". While I think they ALL  are exaggerating to some degree, I also think they are RIGHT to some  degree. However, there are two important factors to remember with  regard to hunting the Bison Range: 1) By the time I enter the field in  "group 2", there will be less than 30 total hunters (group 1 and group  2), in the field, and some will have already been successful, and 2) if the bison herd is "on the Bison Range", then  hunting elsewhere seems silly. Conversely, if the bison herd is NOT on  the Bison Range, then hunting the Bison Range would be silly.

I  asked the biologist what the total population was for the Delta herd. He  said, "About 500". Then added, "If you ask the farmers, it's 1500."  When I was talking with Helkins, he said he often chased off "four to  five HUNDRED" every morning once they showed up at his place. I'm  thinking that Helkins' place has very good potential, BUT... they simply  have to BE THERE. It is similar to what I tell people about caribou  hunting: If the herd has not migrated into the area yet, you can't "hunt  harder" and be successful. Or the corollary: You can hunt REALLY HARD  for elephant in Alaska, but no matter how "hard" you hunt, you are not  going to shoot one because they are not there.

I think aerial  recon just prior to the hunt is key. At this point it seems  like getting that accomplished is a high priority.

Paul

PS - The drive from Glennallen to Delta Junction is, in my opinion, one of two of the most beautiful drives on the North American or European continents. This was a PERFECT fall day. It was nothing short of spectacular!

Paul

Paul, it sounds like you have a plan. I think I like that Helkins fellow. He seems like a straight  up front guy. Good luck to you. ........Paul H

Yeah, that's the feeling I get, Paul. BUT... If the buffalo aren't on his property, there's no use wasting time and money on 'hunting' it.

Paul

OK.. I have lined up - tentatively - aerial recon for the week of Oct 1.  The odds of it actually happening are probably 85:15 to 90:10. As the date approaches, I'll be able to get it locked down to "1".

I called a couple of the landowners that weren't available yesterday, or that I was told to "call back and speak with my wife". First number was "no longer in service", and the second one was "the owner of this number is not answering". No voice message, just "I'm not answering". So... I suppose they are 'out' of consideration. Certainly for the time being.

Something I didn't mention above, was a comment the biologist made about timing. He was gently pushing doing the 'spring' portion of the hunt. (February in interior Alaska is NOT "spring".) His rationale was: "They are easier to track when there is snow on the ground, and there will be fewer hunters." I responded by saying: "Their coats will be better too, but they will weigh less." With regard to the weight, I don't particularly care if they lose 'fat' weight. What I care about is if they are losing muscle mass.

I also asked him about the "average age of the bulls killed", in the context of hearing that in the Delta herd, "there are no big bulls killed in the Delta herd because they get shot as soon as they are big enough to be recognized as not calves". He rebutted that assertion, and said "There are big bulls taken every year." OK... "What IS the average age of the bulls taken?" Again, I got an evasive answer suggesting that either he didn't know the answer, or they didn't have the data. If they don't have the data, I'm going to be VERY annoyed. The Department REQUIRES that hunters provide various "samples" from EVERY bison that is taken in this hunt. Age is one of the primary pieces of information derived from those samples. I want to know what the age distribution is, by year, of the male bison harvested from the Delta bison herd. There is NO WAY they don't have that data. Anyway, when I said that I assumed they were "all" basically 4-year-olds, he immediately said, "Oh no. There are plenty of 8-year-old bulls taken every year." Well... if you "know" that, then you must know the distribution of the ages of ALL of them. I pressed. "Wow. That's way older than I thought it would be. Are you telling me that there are many 8-year-old bulls taken in this hunt?" He started back-peddling. "No. But there are certainly one or two taken every year." AGAIN, if you "know" that, then you have the data. I want it. It's PUBLIC INFORMATION. Furthermore, there's no good reason to withhold it. There's sumpin' funny goin' on here. BUT... I now believe that there are more than "just 4-year-olds" taken from this herd. Which in turn means that I might be more likely to 'wait' a little longer for a decent bull to show up in my sights. I'm not going to put off shooting a bison because I'm looking for a "big one", but I'm not going to take the first one I see either, UNLESS it is a 'reasonably-sized' bull.That's basically what I do with every game animal I hunt. I take the biggest one I CAN FIND. I do not forgo shooting one just because I can't find a "big" one. Almost every caribou "on my wall" is at least the Boone and Crocket minimum and that was completely "by accident". (As I sit here an recount, I can think of 3 caribou that I have shot in the past 40 years that don't meet the B&C minimum.) In fact, I didn't even realize they were 'that' big until someone suggested that they were, and I measured them. On the other hand, I have only one B&C brown bear skull, and NO other animal I have shot makes the B&C minimums. I just don't care very much for 'that stuff'. HOWEVER, the bigger the antlers/horns, the MORE MEAT they have on them. And that is precisely why I shoot the biggest animal I can find.

Paul

President Theodore Roosevelt went on an almost two year safari (1909-1910) to Africa after he left office.  He, his son Kermit, and several others collected 11,397 (this number is not a typo!) game specimens for the Smithsonian and the New York Museum of Natural History.  After the safari, he wrote a book titled "Aftican Game Trails," first published in 1910.  I have a sixth edition, printed in 1926.  At the time, it was a very popular book.

Roosevelt claimed antelope tongue was his favorite cut of meat for the table.  Don't remember the species of antelope, but he shot a whole lot of them during the safari.  He had approximately 100 bearers, skinners, camp help, etc., and he had to shoot a lot of plains animals to keep everyone fed.

I have only one gun-bearer - sakorick.

Paul

Paul, saw your pic on FB...

What a beast! Some good eatin' right there! :)

The story is here: http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?p=154040#post154040, RBB.

Paul