Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next

Grafs and Sons is on "the list"...
Old 04-26-2012, 12:07 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 71
Posts: 19,973
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Grafs and Sons is on "the list"...

I got an email from Graf and Sons offering "Free Shipping". Living in Alaska, my interest is always piqued when I see offerings of "Free Shipping" from people I do business with. Here's the ad:

I called them on the phone when I did not find any place to put the promo code. I was told that the "free shipping" promo did not apply to "dealers". Since I had already placed the order, I was not particularly happy about being duped into placing an order only to find out the "free shipping" offer didn't apply to "dealers". Especially since there was no such stipulation on the ad.

Here's the confirmation email I received.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graf and Sons [mailto:service@grafs.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:42 PM
> To: pskvorc@biopar.com
> Subject: Grafs-Dealer.com Receipt for Order #755879
> Thank you for shopping with Graf & Sons. Your order has been received and
> will be processed shortly.
> If there are any problems with your order, please contact us at
> 1-800-531-2666.
> Order Summary
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Order Number: #755879
> Shipping To: Paul Skvorc

> Subtotal: $253.30
> Order total does not include the price of freight. Please see our terms
> and
> conditions for details.
> Insurance Fee: $0.70
> Unearned Cash Discount: $7.60
> Total: $261.60


Here's the email I sent expressing my displeasure with the misleading nature of the ad. You'll note that I made no mention of cancelling my order or "demanding" that I receive free shipping. I was only expressing my displeasure at being mislead by the ad.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Skvorc" <pskvorc@biopar.com>
To: <service@grafs.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: Grafs-Dealer.com Receipt for Order #755879

> Hello,
> Not very happy to find out that "Free Shipping" promo - PX2012 - doesn't
> apply to "Dealers". The promo ad says "FREE SHIPPING" AND "Handling Fee".
> It
> doesn't say anything about being restricted to retail buyers. I understand
> that dealers don't pay a "handling fee", but dealer definitely pay
> shipping
> and the ad doesn't say ANYTHING about the promo excluding dealers. I made
> the order because of the free shipping. To add insult to injury, the ad
> notes that "Freight is ALWAYS paid to the first 48 states", so we in
> Alaska
> get screwed ALWAYS when it comes to shipping, and in addition, we get
> doubly
> screwed if we're a dealer and do MORE business with you.
> Like I said, I'm really not very happy about this.
> Paul Skvorc

Here's the email I got in response:

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Knowles [mailto:jknowles@grafs.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:00 AM
To: pskvorc@biopar.com
Cc: Natalie
Subject: RE: Grafs-Dealer.com Receipt for Order #755879

Dear Mr Skvorc,

The ad clearly states that this promotion is for orders placed on grafs.com which is our retail website. We'll try and make this even more clear the next time we run the promotion and specifically exclude dealers.

Our retail prices "include" a built-in shipping factor based on an average freight delivered in the continental US. Shipping to AK and HI is significantly more expensive and most AK/HI customers realize this. We work hard to find the most economical means of shipping, regardless of where our customers reside however.

Finally, in order to maintain dealer status, we require purchasing a minimum of $2000 annually. Your 2011 purchases were well below that level so we are changing your account to Retail. This will allow you to take advantage of any future retail promotions keeping in mind the freight restrictions due to your state of residence.

If you have any further questions, please let me know.

Jeff Knowles
General Manager
Graf & Sons

Here is my response to Mr. Knowles' petty and vindictive response to my email:

Well-played Mr. Knowles. That'll teach me to complain about deceptive sales practices.

Each of us are confronted by "right" and "wrong" choices every day of our lives. Unfortunately, when confronted with such a choice, Graf's chose 'wrong'. I too have a choice. I'm sure you will not shed a tear over my choice not to do business with Grafs. However, I also choose to publish your ad, and this correspondence on the websites I frequent. Others will make their own choices about doing business with you. While my business in itself is clearly of no consequence to you, I suspect that your handling of this matter will result in a loss of business that will considerably exceed the insignificance of the shipping on this order. In fact, my annual business alone - regardless of how paltry that is to you - will far exceed the small value of the shipping on this order.

Of greatest significance in evaluating the pettiness of your response is the fact that not only did I NOT cancel the order, I didn't even SUGGEST that you pay for the shipping. I simply took MY TIME to tell you I was unhappy with the confusing nature of your ad. Clearly - now - the ad wasn't 'confusing', it was intentionally deceptive. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded so aggressively to a complaint about it being "confusing". "Grafs.com" IS the pathway through which I placed the order. There is no "DEALER.COM". There is only a dealer "login". Our ad was deceptive, and your response was petty and vindictive. The people of this country are not only capable of recognizing those fundamental character flaws, they are sick and tired of businesses in this country using "marketing tricks" and then getting up on self-righteous high horses when their deceptive practices are exposed to the light of day.

A few years ago when the milsurp 8x56R rifles were first available in this country, Grafs was one of the only purveyors of boxer-primed brass for the 8x56R cartridge. Several of us placed orders for that brass. When Grafs ran out of that brass, we were REPEATEDLY told by Grafs that it would be in "within a month". That deception went on for over 18 months. I, and others, completely understood that the supply problem was not Graf's fault. That wasn't the issue we had with Graf's. What we took issue with was the bald-faced lies we were told about when it would be in. Those lies were repeated over and over and over again SOLELY for the purpose of discouraging us from cancelling our orders. Graf's fundamentally dishonest character was clearly demonstrated in that event. I was not inclined to do business with Grafs after that, and for a couple of years I did not. Unfortunately, I allowed myself to be persuaded by a friend that lives in Graf's "home" state of Missouri, to once again do business with Graf and Sons. Clearly that was a mistake. The old saw is sadly too true: Leopards don’t change their spots. Grafs and Sons is a fundamentally dishonest business. In most instances, most folks will have no problems with doing business with Graf and Sons. However, the true measure of a business's character is not how they conduct themselves when everything is going THEIR way, it is how they CHOOSE to do business when things AREN'T going their way. This case is particularly significant because the misunderstanding was CAUSED by Graf and Sons, and their response - WHEN NO MONEY WAS EVEN INVOLVED - was petty and vindictive.

Shame on you.

Paul Skvorc

PS - By the way. There are several firearms related businesses that do not TAKE ADVANTAGE of those of us that live in Alaska. MidwayUSA and Nosler to name just two. Again, shame on you.

The issue with the 8x56R brass was a VERY clear example of "You will know them by their fruit". I should have paid attention to that unambiguous warning. It saddens me to have to add another name to "the list" of dishonest businesses with whom I won't do business. BUT... If we "take" the deception and the lies from businesses, then we deserve what we get. It is no different than voting for politicians with low morals and weak characters solely because they will "do something" FOR us. If we live long enough, it is inevitable that we will be confronted with the truth that some of the people we know and some of the businesses we use, are dishonest. In today's "politically correct" society, it is considered "intolerant" to confront businesses and especially people for their deceit and lack of moral character. I am an "intolerant" man. Intolerant of deceit, fraud, and lies.

Be nicer than necessary.
Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"IMG" vs "http" for pictures gitano THL SUPPORT FORUM 4 08-12-2009 09:19 PM
"Wednesday Coffee" with a "Warranty" buckshot roberts THE CAMPFIRE 3 08-03-2006 01:53 PM
Comparing a "standard" to a "magnum" CAfrica RELOADING 20 12-08-2004 09:12 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 AM.

vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.