Range Report on the 8mm Steyr Long Throat

Started by gitano, October 16, 2008, 12:02:23 AM

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gitano

I wasn't pressing too hard for this rifle to be ready to make the Colorado trip, but since I was going to the range anyway, I thought I'd see if the barrel was at least "OK". I bought this barrel off of EBay a couple of years ago. It is a Carl Gustav custom barrel that was initially chambered in 8x68. I had to turn off the existing threads, re-thread and re-chamber it. It is a "bull" barrel of sorts, and in addition has a "choke" - an enlarged area for the last 3" of barrel. After finishing, the barrel ended up 23.25" long. I kinda had high hopes for it.
 
While I fully intended to put a 'scope on this rifle, I had yet to get the mount, rings, or 'scope. So... this range session was really just to get a 'feel' for the thing and make sure the barrel wasn't a piece of garbage.
 
The whole point of making the rifle with a "long throat" was to be able to shoot heavy-for-caliber bullets - Hornady 195s or Sierra 220s - from the necked-down .376 Steyr case. So, based on Optimal Barrel Timing theory and using Quickload, I came up with a range of charges for the Sierra 220 BTSP. The charges chosen ranged from 65.88 grains, -1% down from the node charge, to 64.55 grains, -3% down from the node charge. The powder I chose was Reloader-22. I also loaded up three 195-grain Hornadys, just to use to 'get on paper'.
 
As I did with the .375x.284 Win, I shot the bullets "round robin". Meaning that I shot one bullet from each charge in each of 5 'rounds'. That minimized the effect of "order of firing".
 
A quick check at 25 yds, and I moved the target to 50 yds and started shooting the 220s. Here's the target:
 

 
As I saw on the .375x.284 Win loads, the first shot out of a cold barrel on a cold day was predictably an 'outlier'. The only group where this doesn't look to be the case is the 65.55-grain group, however, the upper right shot of that group was a 'called' flier. Keep in mind, that these shots were shot with open sights. So... the crappy groups shot at 100 yards with the 'scoped .375x.284 Win can't be blamed on "the nut behind the butt". At least not this time. Actually, "it" gets better. All I wanted to do was "check the barrel out". Yeehaa! It lookes like there are only three shots in the 64.89-grain group. Let me assure you that there are actually 4! Two bullets in one hole is not too uncommon, but these two are almost exactly on top of each other.
 
From lowet to highest, the average muzzle velocity for each group is: 2556, 2569, 2587, 2601, and 2613 f/s. All of the 3-shot groups (excluding the cold barrel first shots of each), except the 65.88-grain group are GREAT as far as I'm concerned - even if they are at 50 yards.
 
From lowest charge to highest, the 3-shot group sizes are:
 
64.55-grains = 1.137" x 0.594",
64.89-grains = 0.535" x 0.202",
65.22-grains = 0.462" x 0.521",
65.55-grains = 1.146" x 0.790", and
65.88-grains = 1.125" x 1.695".
 
Now I gotta tell ya folks, I'da been happy as a clam with the size of the last group. But four of the five groups are darned respectable even at only 50 yds considering the sights. Again, I haven't "cherry-picked" the shots. All of the 3-shot groups exclude ONLY the first shot from a cold barrel.
 
So, I think I'll focus my attention on the 65.22-grain charge, and see how that shoots with a 'scope.
 
I'm stoked about this rifle and this bullet. AND IT'S A BOAT-TAIL TO BOOT!
 
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell ya - the sights were just taped on with electical tape. :rolleyes:
 

 

 
This thing might be scary accurate once fitted with a 'scope. :eek:
 
Paul
 
PS - I just noticed that the annotation on the target indicates it was shot at 100 yds. That's wrong. It was 50 yds. I was "cutting an pasting" from the 375 target and didn't make the change.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Steve D

Man, I wish my server would show those pictures.  Electrical tape, huh?  Ya think it would hold a scope mount?:greentongue:
You\'re just jealous because the voices only talk to me.  :yes:

22hornet

Quote from: gitano;84340This thing might be scary accurate once fitted with a 'scope. :eek:
 

 
Just as long as the scope is not held on with tape. :laugh: :laugh:
 
Nice grouping with the open sights :biggthumpup:
 
Got to be pleased with that!
"Belief:" faith in something taught, as opposed to "knowledge:" which is awareness borne of experience.

Alboy

I love it, how much you spend on tools?
 
Nice tape job, some folks are gonna think you hang around me too much.
 
Those groups should have you stoked, congrats.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

subsonic

Just goes to show there's still a little voodo in this stuff...

gitano

Just goes to show there's still a little voodo in this stuff...
Amen to that... dudnt mean I like it though... :D
 
I love it, how much you spend on tools?
Which ones? :D :confused:
The lathe and mill cost about $7500 including shipping. The reamers (2) totaled $210.
One no-throat chamber reamer, ($150) and one 'throater' ($50) - the pair so I could cut chambers with different throat lengths.
The barrel, off EBay, was $20 plus S&H. Drills and taps insignificant, but prolly about $20.
 
Nice tape job, some folks are gonna think you hang around me too much.
Tape is a 'beautiful thing'...
Actually the last time I did this - with the .50 Alaskan - I used duct tape.
It ripped off at the first shot. The electrician's tape is quit a bit less "tear-y".
Also doesn't leave as much 'residue' behind.

Those groups should have you stoked, congrats.
And they do indeed!
 
Just as long as the scope is not held on with tape. :laugh: :laugh:
What'd be wrong with that???:hat:
 
Nice grouping with the open sights
Thanks! Makes up for the ones with the 'scoped .375.
 
Got to be pleased with that
You bet I am.
 
Electrical tape, huh? Ya think it would hold a scope mount?
Ya never know, but I don't think I"ll be testing that theory. Are you going to be able to see the pictures at all?
 
A 'scope is in the mail, (might be here today), and I think I have some Mauser bases on hand. If not, I can probably get them locally. I'll D&T the reciever today and reload the cases. God willin', I can get back to the range this weekend with the rifle 'scoped.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

gitano

#6
Lest I get accused of being cut from the same cloth as Bryce Towsley, I'll include ALL of the data.
 
Attached is a "target" showing all twenty of the shots - no exclusions for a first shot from a cold or new barrel. This 'target' is essentially the same as BritHunter's "master target" he talked about a couple of months ago. The stats are on the pic.
 
Even including the justifiably excluded outliers, I'm pleased with these results.
 
Paul
 
PS - The units on the graph are cms, but the squares are inches. The image editor at THL compresses the image laterally,
so it appears that the inch squares are in fact not square. It's just an illusion, they are numerically square.
Be nicer than necessary.

recoil junky

#7
Bailin' whar, duck tape, 'lectrical tape and super glue. gitano's repair kit. Oh yeah, and a pair of them plars what's got the combination screw driver and crecent wrench in the end of the handles :greentongue::greentongue::greentongue::greentongue:

Pretty ingenious if'n I do say so myself.

Nice groups for open sights, Paul. I think you gat a keeper.

RJ
When you go afield, take the kids and please......................................wear your seatbelts.
Northwest Colorado.............Where the wapiti roam and deer and antelope run amuck. :undecided:  
Proud father of a soldier medic in The 82nd Airborne 325th AIR White Falcons :army:

gitano

Thanks RJ.
 
I think it's a 'keeper' too. Now I'm hustlin' to have it ready for the Colorado trip. Not a thing happened today - nor reloading, no drilling and tapping, NADA. AND... I called Graf's to see when they shipped my 'scope and other items (500 pieces of 125 Hornadys :) ) I ordered on the 10th. They shipped it yesterday - 5 days after the order was placed. :stare: :stare: :stare:
 
Maybe tomorrow.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

sakorick

Looking good Paul.:biggthumpup: I wished some of my K98's had a long throat.:( Great shooting with express sights. Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

Your short-throated (at least relatively) milsurps are the only ones I know of Rick. I've got 20-some-odd k-98 and its variants, and every one has a throat that if I loaded a 185 out to the lands, the bullet wouldn't even be in the case neck.
 
This rifle may turn out to be one of those diamonds in the rough that show up every now and then. I say that not just because it shot so well even with open sights, (I really must keep in mind that it was only 50 yards AND it so far has been only one shooting event), but that it's also shooting a boat-tail better than any rifle I've ever owned. I've NEVER been able to get a boat-tailed bullet to shoot better than a flat-based bullet out of any specific rifle I have owned. And believe me, in my speed uber alles days, I tried, and tried, and tried.
 
It's easy to get exited about a rifle that one builds for a specific purpose or bullet, and have it actually work as planned. Kind of a new experience for me. Oh I've had rifles that shoot "lights out" as you say, but they were either 'accidents' of fate, or if they were one I had 'made', I had to 'compromise' somewhere along the path of manufacture. My 7x300 is a good example. I kept the 24" barrel 'cause I had to, not because I wanted to. I wanted a 28" barrel.
 
Anyway, thanks for the encouragment. Stay tuned... I'm gonna try to get back to the range this weekend. By the looks of it, it won't be 'til Sunday though.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Steve D

Paul, I saw that last picture.  Even at 50 yards with everything "going against it", that's not bad.  I'm going to try some 205's in my 8x56, if I ever get another day off.  :Banghead:
You\'re just jealous because the voices only talk to me.  :yes:

gitano

Steve,
 
Seeing the last "picture" explains why you can't "see" the others. The last picture is "hosted" by The Hunter's Life - the site you are curently logged into. The first pictures are hosted by Photobucket, a site different from the one (THL) you are logged into. Your security setup, or your ISP, is blocking you from accessing a web-page that isn't the one in which you are logged. I'll see what I can do to get those first pics visible.
 
With regard to the computer generated image, you need to keep in mind that that image is a 'composite'. Each of the actual groups was located at different points of impact on one large target sheet. By subtracting the x,y coordinates of the center of each group, (thereby forcing the center to have the x,y location of 0,0), all of the groups get superimposed because all of their "new" centers are located at 0,0.
 
Doing this helps more accurately describe what a bunch of small-sample-size groups (3 or 4-shot groups for example) would look like if they had all been shot at the same point of aim.
 
Good luck with the M-95. Keep us posted.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

gitano

Here is the first picture of the actual target:
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

gitano

#14
Here's the muzzle:
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

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