Centerfire Pellet Gun

Started by gitano, March 27, 2015, 10:24:51 AM

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gitano

A few years back I bought a tin of .22 caliber "Predator" pellets for Jay Edwards - before asking him if he used them. He didn't. So, I have these high-fallootin' 16.2-grain, .22 caliber pellets with nothin' to do. Hmm... I wonder what they would do in the Hornet? :angel:





Since I have plastic "practice" cases and bullets for the .44 Mag and the .357, and all they use for propellant is the primer, I thought maybe the primer would be all that was needed to propel these little pellets out of the Anschutz. I primed some cases with the 7 1/2 Remington Bench Rest primers, flared the mouth of the case ever-so-slightly with a  .25-20 depriming rod, seated a pellet by hand, and then crimped the mouth with the Lee Factory Crimp for the Hornet. Voila'





I strapped the MagnetoSpeed on the Anshutz, filled a half-gallon plastic milk jug with water and headed into the back yard to see what would happen when I pulled the trigger.

Not much.

Actually, in retrospect, I don't think the first pellet made it out of the barrel, as I didn't get a velocity reading. And I know the second one didn't because I looked. So, back inside to poke the pellet(s) out of the bore, remove the pellets from the three remaining cases, and 'do it again' only this time adding some powder. Bullseye seemed like a good choice.

When I ran a cleaning rod down the bore to push the pellet(s) out, there was only one in the bore, and its little red plastic tip was missing. What I think happened was that the first one didn't make it out either, and the force of the second one pushing air ahead of it forced the first one out the muzzle. Regardless, only one came out of the bore and the bore was clear.


The rifling marks can be seen on the skirt, and just barely on the front 'rim'. That front rim is 0.219" in diameter in an unfired pellet. That should mean that it is basically a "bore-riding" band, which in turn should mean greater precision. Lotsa 'schmutz' from the primer. It was in the barrel and on the neck of the cases too.

I was going to only use 1 grain of Bullseye, but it's really difficult to weigh out a single grain, so I ended up with a charge of 2.8 grains. I repeated the same loading process as before, and again headed out to the back yard. When I picked up the display unit for the MagnetoSpeed I was seriously bummed!



I had dropped it on the basement floor as I was coming back in the house, and the liquid crystal display was seriously broken! :Banghead::cry: $50 +shipping and time to fix. $150 to replace. Bad words were spoken out loud. The sensor still worked and the unit has an SD micro-card for storage, so I still took it out.

I moved the milk jug out to the 30 m mark, and let fly. Whoa! Impressive impact on the milk jug! Also pretty loud. About the same as a high-velocity .22 RF. Not the same 'crack', and a little more "boom". About the same noise level, just a little different sound. Blew the milk jug open!


(Jug on right is the one shot with the Cape gun the other day.)



There was no exit 'wound', but it split the thing wide open from top to bottom, and as I said, the impact was impressive looking. I suppose all of the pellet was inside the jug, but I wasn't thinking about that when I picked it up and I only found the pellet's skirt. Point of Impact was about an inch left of Point of Aim, but that doesn't really say anything about accuracy since that was the only shot I took.

Turns out, the cracks in the display on the MagnetoSpeed didn't cover one of the places the velocity was displayed. It registered 2210 f/s. Pretty fast "pellet". Pretty loud too - for a pellet gun.

I will have to shoot this more times to see what precision it is capable of, but this is definitely a bunny or fox killer at 50 yards or so, maybe more if the precision is there. 2200 f/s with 2.8 grains of powder and a projectile that only costs 5 cents a piece is cheap shooting.

More when there is more to report.

Paul

PS - 175 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, powder all burnt in 19 inches, and only 7236 psi for max pressure.
Be nicer than necessary.

gitano

#1
I don't like the small amount of the case capacity used by the powder - about 38% for the 2.8 grains of Bullseye - so I had a look at TrailBoss. 3.73 grains of TrailBoss fills the case 100%, gives a MV of 2353 f/s, ME of 200 ft-lbs and a max pressure of 10,009 psi. I think I'll try that. I think at some point (velocity), the pellet is going to 'fail'. If muzzle pressure (pressure when pellet exits the muzzle), is too high, it may blow the skirt apart. Maybe it can handle the 2350 f/s with a muzzle pressure of 812 PSI. (Muzzle pressure for the 2.8-grain Bullseye load was 955 PSI.)  QuickLOAD predicts that a charge of 3.0 grains of TrailBoss (80% of case capacity) should give a MV of 2036 f/s and a muzzle pressure of only 736 PSI. That's worth considering, but oddly enough, it doesn't burn 100% in the 24" barrel. There are other powder choices. Power Pistol, Herco, Tin Star (man! I wish I could get my hands on some of that powder), Blue Dot, etc.

More later.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)

Turvey Stalking
Learn from the Limeys or the Canucks, or the Aussies, or the Kiwis, or the...
                   "The ONLY reason to register a firearm is for future confiscation - How can it serve ANY other purpose?"

j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)

IIRC 1 grain bullseye was enough to get the pellet supersonic in a 22-250.
It did make a horrible mess inside the bore though - probably why I stopped messing with them...
Turvey Stalking
Learn from the Limeys or the Canucks, or the Aussies, or the Kiwis, or the...
                   "The ONLY reason to register a firearm is for future confiscation - How can it serve ANY other purpose?"

gitano

In my experience Bullseye is pretty 'dirty' powder, and the lower the pressure the dirtier it gets. I haven't yet looked at the bore since firing the Bullseye charge, but looking at the QL numbers, I'm pretty sure I'm going to TrailBoss. Maybe that will be 'cleaner'. If I use Bullseye, I'll have to come up with a 1.0 grain dipper. Putting 1.0 grains of small flake powder on scale is pain in rear.

I was surprised to find the MagnetoSpeed people even willing to repair. They strike me as a VERY greedy business. I am going to take the unit apart and see if I can find a replacement LCD unit. I'm not optimistic that I can get it properly de-and-re soldered even if I can find one, but it won't be any worse than complete replacement.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

A poster on a S.A. forum made a ML with a .177 barrel, worked well enough he whacked a small baboon with it.
Go to pyramid air site and see what pellets they might have, I know they have some pretty heavy ones.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

#6
Don - Went there. Found some interesting pellets. Tried to check out, $20 shipping. Sent them a note. Here's their response:

Re: Company Policy Question case #[2015-03-27:15:56:47-6]
Customer Support (support@pyramydair.com)  Add to contacts  12:42 PM   Keep this message at the top of your inbox  
To: pskvorc@outlook.com
support@pyramydair.com
​Afternoon,
we do apologize but we only ship with FedEx. Their Smartpost option uses USPS to make the final delivery takes the most time but is the cheapest shipping we offer.
Matthew​

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 3:56 PM, wrote:
From: Paul

How about using the USPS for shipping to Alaska? $20 for UPS/FedEx is ridiculous.

Thanks,
Paul




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Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

I suspect they are not on your preferred list.
I have bought some things there, but it was on a free shipping promo.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

Dudnt look like "high speed" is gonna work...



3.2 grains of TrailBoss. Should have produced average MV of 2129 f/s, max pressure of 7394 PSI, muzzle pressure of 734 PSI.

3o meters. Point of Aim was center of helmet. I think the 5th shot went in the 10mm hole. The paper is too big for it to have missed the whole target.  The two closest to the PoA sounded the fastest. The other three sounded like they had less oomph to 'em. Didn't have broken MagnetoSpeed attached.

Either faster or slower, but this is not usable.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

It seems both of the principal air gun pellet vendors are planning on retiring on the excess shipping charges.
I did some looking around, it seems Amazon has the best selection and prices .
I found pellets from 20 to 32gr  and free shipping after $35.
I can always find something to get the total up to $35.
It seems the vendors have never learned about a small, flat rate box, 6-8 cans of pellets would fit in one small flat rate box and go anywhere in the US, Alaska and Hawaii included, for $6.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

They just want FedEx/UPS to come to their businesses and pick up. What the idiots don't know is that the USPS picks up too. The stupidest part of it is that they're making money FOR SOMEBODY ELSE!

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

Likely a waste of time, but there are a very few copper plated pellets available.
I suspect the so-called plating is just a wash.Have you tried a good lube on the pellets?
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

davidlt89

Pretty neat Paul!!!! God bless.
Romans 12:2
     
2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

drinksgin (deceased)

This subject stirred some old memories.
The comic books used to have an ad for a pellet pistol that was .11 or.12 caliber, used a size of bird shot, I do not remember what it was.
Used paper caps for the power,a friend got one, it did make a can rattle nicely.
Just no telling what sort of memories come up when things are stirred deeply enough.
Just checked sizes, likely it was #6.

:daisy:
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

The pellets I have used so far, Don, are heavily 'greased' like .22 RF bullets. I don't feel a need for lube at the moment.

All things considered, I think something in the 800 to 1200 f/s range will probably give the best precision. I'm not sure I want to fiddle with this too much. If I had a suppressor it would be more interesting. As it is, there's really nothing in my yard I want to shoot except cats, and I've seen exactly three cats in the last 15 years and two of them aren't around to return. Given the incredible growth in The Valley, I don't expect to see foxes or hares any more. The moose population will probably increase as the place gets over-run with 'ticky-tacky boxes' and no one is allowed to discharge a firearm within 1/4 mile of an occupied building.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

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