As can be seen here: http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?p=154457#post154457, my Anschutz .22 Hornet REALLY "likes" the Hornady factory ammo. If Hornady can do that, I should be able to put together some handloads that do just as good. The truth is, since it is SO precise out of this rifle, I could live with buying/using factory ammo. There are two problems with buying ammo though: 1) It's kinda spendy. Nevertheless, I'm willing to pay - about a buck per round - for that level of precision. 2) It's hard to FIND. (We looked all over the place between Kansas City and Rick's neck of the woods, and couldn't find ANY.) This is the primary reason I want to develop a load that is as precise as the Hornady factory ammo. Of course there is a third reason, but it's not too big a deal: It will bug me for a long time that I can't do better than 'factory' with my handloads. Heck, so far I can't even do as good as factory!

Anyway, I took one of the Hornady cartridges apart. Here's the data from that 'dissection':

Cartridge overall length - 1.707"
Cartridge SPOAL (StoneyPoint OverAll Length) - 1.445" (SPOAL is the point at which the diameter of the bullet equals the BORE diameter. For the bullet, this would be the length of the bearing surface of the bullet.)
Case Length - 1.390"
Bullet overall length - 0.5205"
Bullet SPOAL - 0.260"
0.205" measured to the center of the cannelure, which is the depth to which Hornady seats their cannelured bullet. Calculated seating depth based on case length, bullet length, bullet SPOAL and cartridge SPOAL is 0.202". Close enough.
The charge was 10.75 grains of SOMETHING. It's similar to Li'l Gun, but personally, I think it's different.


The three bullets I am considering using other than the Hornady 35-grain V-Max, are:
1) Nosler Ballistic Tip MPN-45150 - 35 grains (MPN = Manufacturer's Part Number)
Overall length - 0.735"
SPOAL - 0.308"

2) Midway "Dogtown" bullet - no MPN - 34 grains.
Overall length - 0.516"
SPOAL - 0.226"


3) Speer HP MPN-1014 - 33 grains
Overall length - .402"
SPOAL - 0.168"


The Nosler is on the left; the Hornady factory bullet with the cannelure; the Dogtown bullet next; and the Speer on the right. (Not sure why it's such a bad picture, but I don't intend to take another and go through the rigmarole to load it here.)
 



The 35-grain Hornady V-Max WITHOUT cannelure has a MPN of 22252. I don't have them in hand yet, so I can't measure the OAL and SPOAL. Clearly, the Dogtown bullet it the closest to the factory Hornady V-Max in both total length and SPOAL.

Here's what Nosler says for loads for it's 34 and 35-grain bullets:




The Hornady box claims that the ammo will do 3100 f/s at the muzzle. That is the MV I get (on average). (Another surprise: factory claim of MV that is actually close to what is observed!)


This is an interesting read: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_22hornet_082306/99290


Quote from one gunwriter(ptooey): "No other caliber I’ve ever owned, or developed loads for, has been more  frustrating or given me more pure satisfaction than this little  cartridge that was new when Calvin Coolidge was in office."


Another read pointing out how finicky the .22 Hornet is for reloading:   http://www.lasc.us/RangingShot22Hornet.htm


Here's what Speer says for their 33-grain HP:



The "max charge" of the Accurate No.9 is very close to the Hornady load - 10.8 grains producing 3100+ f/s MV. Hmmm... I don't think I have any No. 9. I may be getting some.

Paul

Just out of curiosity, what is your estimate of load density in Hornady's case?

The bulk density of Win 296 is 15.3 grains per cubic centimeter. (Almost the density of water.) The nominal case capacity of the .22 Hornet is 14.2 grains of water, or 92% of a cubic centimeter. Therefore, a charge of 10.8 grains of Win 296 should be a load density of ABOUT 65%.

If your question was more aimed at what did the load density 'look like' with the powder in the Hornady case, I wouldn't argue with 65%. It was most certainly not near case capacity, and just as certainly more than 50%.

Paul

Quote from: gitano;154463If your question was more aimed at what did the load density 'look like' with the powder in the Hornady case, I wouldn't argue with 65%. It was most certainly not near case capacity, and just as certainly more than 50%.

 Paul

That was indeed my question.
For the purpose of comparing Accurate #9's volume to Hornaday's mystery powder, it might be useful to determine #9's load density in the same case.

No particular reason. I would try Accurate #9 or Hodgdon Lil Gun first. Just a gut feeling for this small cartridge. Not much change in velocity from starting load to max. load.   ......Paul H

Layne Simpson never mentioned the Sako 22 Hornet models.

Quote from: Jamie.270;154464That was indeed my question.
For the purpose of comparing Accurate #9's volume to Hornaday's mystery powder, it might be useful to determine #9's load density in the same case.

Whatever powder Hornady is using, it would be difficult to get a measurement of the load density that was more precise than +/- 5% at best. Furthermore, all of these powders are very similar in look and bulk density. I think the charge weight, coupled with the MV, are going to be the best measures of similarity.

Simpson is a gunwriter(ptooey). It's like being a politician. Once you want to become one, regardless of what your integrity WAS, the only thing to be trusted from you is when you, at the end of the day say, "The sun came up today".

Li'lGun is one of the powders I will be playing with, Paul. BUT... I've already played with it a lot in the Hornet. I'm not confident that I can get the MV AND precision of the Hornady ammo using Li'lGun.

Paul

I find it "funny" that most manuals are still separating WW296/H110 even though they are supposed to be "the same".

Not 22Hornet related, but I'm sure I could tell the difference in 44 magnum loads.

Anyways, I'm watching this with interest.

RJ

G'day Paul. I'm watching this one with interest. I (thought) I posted a quick reply in the Missouri safari thread a day or two ago but must not have hit send. That little Annie is shooting very well. While many question using the Mod54 action for centrefire duties I love my .222; smooth, accurate and petite.

I would love to  rebarrel an old 1432 to .17 fireball or .17AH, I think it would make a beautiful little stalking small game rifle.

Quite a few 22h fans here in Aus use Lil'gun. A friend of mine has a lovely old Sako L46 and he has 34gn Nosler FBHPs shooting very nicely.

Have I sent you a few Aus magazine articles on the 22h before? I lose track whom I've sent what after a while.

In the reading I've done the use of pistol primers and/or a neck crimping die are suggested as worthy of exploring to improve accuracy in the hornet.

Marcus

Paul, CFE BLK also gets a mention as a powder to look into for the hornet.

Marcus

I'll be looking at those, Marcus.

 Paul


PS - Hmmm... I had a response to your above post that seems to have 'vaporized' also, Marcus. You have indeed sent me articles on Hornets before. In fact, my ethereal post mentioned those and asked if you had seen any new ones that referenced any of the newer powders.

It's the middle of winter here, so getting out to the range to shoot is not really very productive. It gives me time to do some research and paper-whip some things. I have been looking over my past efforts at reloading the .22 Hornet, and most of that effort was an attempt to get some low-velocity "squirrel" loads. I have a bit more confidence that I will be able to get a precise 'fast' load. However, it should be acknowledged that EVERYONE, from the very earliest days of the cartridge, have complained of the 'finickiness' of the Hornet while simultaneously lauding its proclivity for precision.

One thing I am going to do is measure the case capacity of each case, and group them by capacity while working up separate loads (in QuickLOAD), for each different case capacity class. (UGH. Sounds like the gyrations benchrest shooters resort to.:frown) The difference in case capacities between Hornady and Winchester cases is significant, AND within Winchester cases there is a bi-modal distribution. (See post #21 here: http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18245&highlight=case+capacity&page=3). I'm also going to trim each case. If all of that doesn't provide the desired precision, I'll turn the necks to uniform thickness. Of course I'll have to be more careful than usual about primers. Again, this is all so much more tedious than necessary for "large-capacity" cases, and seemingly so blasted common for small-capacity cases.


News at 11.



Paul

I'm using PPU brass (easily available and not too spendy here) LilGun and fiocchi small pistol primers topped with a sierra 1440 40gn bullet. Not having to fight it for half minute at 100 yds.
The hornet case being what it is putting a flare in the case mouth really helps in bullet seating and alignment and finish up the round with a light factory crimp.
Squirrel round that I'm currently messing with uses a H&N 45 grain swaged and copper plated round nose bullet Linky and a few grains of Vihtavouri  N32C Tin Star.

I'll try to find some of the H&N bullets 'over here', but I'm not  going to waste any more time or money trying to get a "squirrel load"  for the .22 Hornet. The next time I hunt squirrels in Missouri, I'll be  using one of my rifles chambered in .22 Magnum RF. If I do any predator  hunting in MO, I'll use the Anschutz with either Hornady factory ammo or  handloads that replicate the Hornady factory ammo performance.

 Paul


PS - Interestingly to me, the local Walmart sells H&N pellets https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=H%26N. Unfortunately, they do not sell bullets.

Paul

It is only my shake on the hornet, personally think there is nothing better than the 22LR for squizzers, but the contender is such a useful tool that it is worth the effort for me to bugger around with it. I have machined adaptors for the 22LR to fit the hornet chamber and they work surprisingly well!
H&N are well known for their range of pellets, I guess them selling bullets in the states is like selling sand to arabs.

I never had anything that exotic but I always found the light weight Sierra s to work well in my k hornet