Rounded up some hard-cast lead bullets in 35 caliber, 220 grainers w/GCs.  Two wraps of paper gives me about 7~8 mils thickness so paper-patching a .358 bullet should get me to .366, enough to try in the 9.3x57 Husky.  With a little experimenting I got the hang of "wrapping" pretty quick.


I found the back of a computer mousepad works pretty well in "rolling your own".



After snipping the tails I rolled the bullets in Lee Alox lube and let them dry before loading.

Loaded 5 four-round sets using 38 to 42  grains IMR3031.  Shot two of the 38 grainers at 50 yds (then taped over) just to make sure I was on paper and then rest shot the remainder at 100 yds. When I went from 39 to 40 grains I adjusted the POI down as the trajectory became flattter. No chrony, as I had no idea how this PP-experiment might work out.


I was pleased with the results that at least they were all on the target, however each individual 4 shot  group is 5~6 inches.  Can't really tell much difference between any of the load groups.  All my brass indicates low pressure.  The only difference I made to the rifle on this outing was to loosen the secondary bolt in the forearm (a tiny screw) to not restrict the barrel's thermal exapansion on this, a very warm day.

If anything, I like where the 42 grain load set is going and maybe should try pushing this load a bit higher.  

What do you guys think?

Nels

Push it up. Regards, Rick.

OK, got around to pushing the Paper-patched rounds a bit higher.  Again these are 220 grain .358" diameter hard cast lead, two wraps of paper w/Lee alox lube.  Started at 42 grains of IMR3031 and went up to 45 grains.  Target at 100 yds.



Started off shooting the 42 grain load too high, forgetting I needed to go with a 6 o'clock hold for POA.  Starting over using a 6 o'clock hold for the rest of the shots.   With the 43 grain load stringing vertical, then the 44 grain goes mostly horizontal, I think my optimum load is somewhere about 43.5 grains.  With my eyes and those fixed front bead, rear V-notch iron sights, I'm not sure I can do much better.

At 45 grains of 3031 in the 9.3x57, the primers start to show some flattening althought the brass at the casehead shows no additional expansion.  Accuracy scatters above 44 grains anyway.

43.5 grains IMR3031 with the paper-patch I think should be a killer with pretty easy recoil.  Still shooting high but I think this Husky is maybe sighted in using 286 grain jacketed bullets for 150 or more meters.  Some day soon I get to confirming that.  Anyhoo, the ony variable I might tweak with this load is try .359" cast lead over the standard .358" if a bit tighter fit might be better.  

One nice side benefit is the paper-patchin' leaves the bore pretty clean.  A little powder residue to wipe out afterward and that's it.

I have yet to find any "paper" on the range like some PP writers talk about.  Either mine have been "consumed" or they're resting with the bullets in the berm.

Nels

Hi Nelsdou,

     May I suggest you try using soft cast bullets as they will give you expansion should you hunt with them however being Paper patched they will not lead the bore as they won't actually be touching it .

    According to Paul Mathew's book you need a bullet at least 0.001" larger than land dimension to grip the rifling but too large a bullet is not good for accuracy when patched. I think you know I tried a little experimentation along these lines before having to stop due tou our stupid licensing rules  as I am not allowed to shoot my 9.3x57 Husqvarna now.

Good point Brit-H,

.358 maybe already be "tight" for the 9.3 lands paper-patch wise.  I'll try to check the hardness of what I'm shooting now and see what's out there in .358 rifle weights that are "soft".  Most of what I come across that is soft is intended for pistol loads.

Nels

Thanks for the update Nels.
 
Personally, I don't think the bullet "hardness" is a factor, but that's just an opinon borne of precious little experience. I always thought that the 0.001" over bore diameter was strictly for cast bullets and specifically NOT for PP bullets. But I could be mistaken on that.
 
Your selection of the 43.5-grain load is one I would say the targets support.
 
As far as I'm concerned, I think the patches are still attached to the bullets by ALOX. I'd be willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that the paper is not "consumed".
 
How long a barrel is on that rifle? I'd like to run some numbers through QuickLoad to get educated guesses on muzzle velocities and chamber pressures.
 
Finally, are those one inch squares on your target?
 
Paul

Paul,

Yep, one inch squares.  The barrel on this Husky breech end to muzzle appears to be right at 24 inches.  I expected the std Mauser 23.62 inches, surprise suprise.  Twist is ~once in 14.

BTW, the paper-patched bullets are simply pushed into the fired case necks without re-sizing or crimping.  They seemed to stay in place ok (snug) while handling.

Nels

Quickload estimates a muzzle velocity of about 2200 f/s and a chamber pressure of about 26,000 PSI with the 43.5-grain charge. Of course these are really just 'ball park' guesses as the bullet is .358 instead of .366, and how the paper seals, etc., is unknown. For what it's worth, I'd guess the MV estimate to be within 100 f/s.
 
I'm gonna play with the groups off of your targets and see if anything looks "trendy". I suspect however, that you've already found the sweet spot. Still, I'm having to live vicariously through other people's targets at the moment.
 
Paul

Hi All,

  Sorry to confuse you :undecided:  but the dimension I was talking about is the land diameter and not groove diameter. The bullets need to be at least 0.001" over the land diameter to grip the rifling as the paper alone does not grip it well.

  Also I will admit never to have hunted with cast bullets, for one thing the law here requires the use of an expandign bullet, and that is described as a "Bullet which is designed to expand reliably" . So hunting with a hard cast bullet is more than likely illegal here in the UK hence I used pure lead in my experiments. The other reason was what Paul Mathew's wrote in his book "the Paper Jacket" and his thoughts on expandign bullets which did sound sound to me.

   Hmmm as I still have some of those pure lead cast bullets I may try a couple on our back field. It will have to be at about 50 paces. Now I will have to go look out my notes and see where I left off.

Amazing about the pressure, but it makes sense.  I thought it was a bit odd as I increased the charge the primers continued to back out a bit (low pressure sign) until I got up to 44~45 grains of IMR3031.  The Alox pp bullet probably squirts out with considerably less friction too preventing pressure to build to the levels like a jacketed bullet.

Paul, with the QL, would a slightly faster powder predict higher pressure and speeds?  I really can't complain about the velocity and the 3031 fills the cartridge volume.  If one believes the pressure "window" for lead is BHN*1422, lower limit, to BHN*1422+10,500 in psi for the upper pressure limit for lead, this would be 21,000 psi to 32,000 psi for a Lyman #2 alloy, which puts me inside quite comfy.  But then again, not sure if that theory holds water for paper-patching.

I understand what BritH is saying with the .001 over land dimension for PP.  This husky is .366 grooves /.356 lands at the muzzle but the throat portion is not near as "tight", so I can shove a bigger bullet (hence PP-ing a .359 bullet) to get a better "fit" in the throat, but I'm limited by the chamber case neck dimension.  For some reason any cartridge neck over .392 in diameter after seating a bullet is a no-go in my Husky.  So PP-ing a .358 bullet may be optimum on diameter in my case, after all.

Nels

Hi Nels,

Ahh whilst not quite on PP theme I just found these phots of the 9.3 cartridge and the bullets (jacketed at this time) that I was playing with :-



 The RWS Cone Point is an outsatnding bullet although I have never used oen on game yet. Trouble is they are darned expensive and nearly impoosible to get here in the UK. I picked up a box of 50 of them in France on a day trip. The French use them on Boar.

Brithunter,

Here's some for comparison:


Left to right: the 9.3 270g Speer, .367" 270g Mt. Baldy hard-cast lead, .358" 220g LBT hard-cast lead, and 9.3 200g Hawk.  Note the Hawk jacket doesn't cover the center of the base.

I have yet to shoot the Speers and the Hawks.  The Hawk is supposed to be soft copper jacket and soft lead core designed to be effective at lower velocities, but I believe the 9.3x57 should send them down range at a pretty good clip. The last time I shot the Mt Baldy's they fly very well but I did have a few times the large meplat hung up on entering the chamber.  Rounding off the edge of those with a file should solve that.  The LBTs' lend themselves well to paper-patching, feed without a hitch and still have a good size meplat for hunting purposes.  Love to see it upsized to mould for a 9.3mm.

Nels

Brithunter was right.

I attempted to shoot some paper-patched .359" 250 grain cast lead bullets in my 9.3 Husky.  Full power loads.  Accuracy went south quickly as the bore fouled badly with lead.  Time to head home, but my son was with me, and I decided to have him fire some paper-patch .358" 220 grain cast lead bullets through it.  As he shot a few, the accuracy returned!  In fact, he put three through a single hole at 100 yds.

The only explantion I can think of (other than I'm a terrible shot) is the .358 PP bullets are the "right " size and the paper scoured out some of the previous deposited lead.  When I cleaned the bore later , I did get a number of small lead particles on the patches.  I continued a few more patches using Kroil and that seemed to do a good job getting the last remaining lead out.

Nels

Hi Nelsdou,

     Perhaps it's time to start playing with my 9.3mm again and try Paper Patched bullets as well. In fact it's unlikely that I can legally shoot anything else as expanding bulelts are banned except for hunting. Now I wonder if burning speed of powder could be a factor in accuracy. If the powder gases are too hot they might be burning the paper patch allowing the lead bullet to contact the bore. This will destroy any accuracy potential.